Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Discussion on game mechanics, balancing etc.
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ForFunAndProfit
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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by ForFunAndProfit » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:45 pm

Here is an idea: Why don't we tinker for each of the playable nation's orders of battle. Custom names, levels of experience ect. Maybe that way we can get some fresh replayability without having to significantly change any mechanics. This way each nation provides a unique start.

Veneteaou
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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Veneteaou » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:41 pm

In each scenario: we must choose either historical accurateness or balanced game play, but cannot have both on the same level. Most of the small kingdoms in the middle of the map would be irrelevant in a strategy game and the diplomatic interactions in real life (like marriages or so...) are quite complicated to model. I think a good strategy game needs to be balanced, otherwise there is a dominant strategy and the replayability is not so much fun.
You have to go for balanced gameplay if this is going to be the only map we can play on. The only reason why the scenarios of Imp1 were historically unbalanced is because the base game really was the random map games. If we ever get a random map generator implemented we can push for historically accurate scenarios, but until then I suggest we skip it and do our best to balance the gameplay out.

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Trilarion
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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Trilarion » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:17 am

I am confident that at some point we will have a random scenario generator. In the simplest version it's just us using the scenario editor. :D

I think the european map is what most players like to play, and also for multi-player fairness the nations have to be reasonably balanced. But we can have a historical scenario too. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that going along two-tracks there is the best.

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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Creator » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:59 pm

sorry I think i misrepresented what I was meant to say.

Yes I think balance is more important than historical accurateness to an extent and we can't represent the historical borders perfectly (especially in the German Region).

I still hope that it will be harder to resurrect the ottoman empire than to build a mighty french empire.

I hope I make sense as I am bad at making sense sometimes.


But ultimately I do not think it will matter too much how much the remake makes the 1814 scenario more balanced vs historical accurateness as (like you said) many players will be making there own maps.

Just as long as the remake has a good easy to use map editor all should be good

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Trilarion
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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Trilarion » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:58 pm

Creator wrote:... I still hope that it will be harder to resurrect the ottoman empire than to build a mighty french empire. ...
For single player this is not a problem unless it is as unbalanced as in the original game. England should always win (they could wipe out France withing 5 years) - the only reason it doesn't when it's controled by the AI is that the AI acts very stupid. The difference between different nations should be so small that experienced users can win with all nations, average users only with some.

For multi player it is completely different. Surely it would be unfair to play an unbalanced scenario. Who would like to take over the ottoman empire part when playing against other humans? There we need to provide a scenario that gives mostly balanced chances, although the strategies for each nation can greatly differ. It doesn't have to be a historical scenario, although I would like to play Europe 1814 with others...

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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Veneteaou » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:03 am

Depends upon how the AI and diplomacy options are balanced. Ottoman Empire, like many minor nations, has resources and other strategic benefits, regardless of whether it's an ally, a colony, or a part of the empire. If the weakest great power still has the strength to be a worthwhile ally, or enough power to repel an invasion long enough to expose their enemy's weakness, they are just fine for this game.

Remember from games like Risk: the only enemies you have on the board are the ones who are stronger than you. Everything else can be used to your advantage. If we want to stress diplomacy over militarization, and a supply/demand market with limited global resources, then I think it's almost beneficial to have purposefully unbalanced scenarios.

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Re: Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Creator » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:16 pm

Trilarion wrote:
Creator wrote:... I still hope that it will be harder to resurrect the ottoman empire than to build a mighty french empire. ...

For multi player it is completely different. Surely it would be unfair to play an unbalanced scenario. Who would like to take over the ottoman empire part when playing against other humans? There we need to provide a scenario that gives mostly balanced chances, although the strategies for each nation can greatly differ. It doesn't have to be a historical scenario, although I would like to play Europe 1814 with others...

this is just me but I think it gives more challenge to the more advanced player to win a multiplayer game as a weak ottoman empire..... also an unbalanced game would allow people on different levels to play together

IE a novice person as france and an expert person as the ottomans

but thats just my thought..... Once again people will probably just make maps to there whims and release it to the public so we are covered either way

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Re: IX. Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Alias72 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:34 pm

I think that the map should be expanded a bit eastward and southward (north African coast). the reason for this is to enhance the level of play for the Ottomans, Russians, French Italians, and British. the ottomans fought many major powers over control of the eastern north African provinces especially in the early game and late.

Including a small segment of the Caucasus highlights the strategic situation the ottomans were in and helps counter their large number of provinces. France went for morocco, Italy went for Tripoli, Britain is really important because they went for Egypt, Kuwait, and Iraq. also most of the oil that becomes important in the late game is in the middle east making that region important. the Russians get theirs from Baku (caucus region) french from morocco, British from Kuwait and Iraq, Italians from Tripoli, without it the world has a shortage. it also is important for Prussia and Austria as these powers need to ally and trade to get oil (hence the ottoman alliance.)

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Re: IX. Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Alias72 » Wed May 15, 2013 2:30 am

if your worried about the Germanic minors simply have a north German federation and a south German federation with alliances to Prussia and the Habsburges. this prevents them from being militarily annexed as well. Hanover should be a British protectorate with poor relations (to simulate the break with the ascendance of queen Victoria, Hanover wont renew the alliance.) Greece shouldn't be independent. that happened later, revolutions would correct this.

I noticed that Italy in the start-up was rather large. this is problematic because as a nation seeking unification the AI and game mechanics are likely to push this rather vigilantly (early unification). having Italian minors start with allegiances might be a better solution.

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Re: IX. Basic Scenario - Europe 1814

Post by Trilarion » Wed May 15, 2013 8:19 am

Thanks for all the nice suggestions. There will be plenty of opportunity to discuss and implement these ideas during the development. Currently we are quite far from any such things.

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